turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Talk:Dorothy Moss
Jonathan has changed nationality to Canadian from American. Now I believe we had her as an American because she was born to an American father but I don't recall exactly. Thoughts? ML4E (talk) 20:03, April 26, 2016 (UTC) in case this was missed in the mess of edits. ML4E (talk) 18:03, April 27, 2016 (UTC) :I think we can do Canadian but say something about her likely dual citizenship, e.g. Canadian (born to a US father) or something like that. TR (talk) 19:05, April 27, 2016 (UTC) ::Is there such a thing as Canadian citizenship when there's no such thing as a Canadian government? This feels like a tricky one. Turtle Fan (talk) 01:01, April 28, 2016 (UTC) I don't think the U.S. government would have been granting citizenship willy-nilly to anyone born in occupied Canada so it would be either Canadian or stateless. Moss would be a special case. For instance, if the bomb had killed Laura but not Dorothy, then I think Moss would have been able to bring her back to the U.S. with only some bureaucratic hoops to jump through. We do have Alec Pomeroy listed as Canadian. What were your thoughts behind the change Jonathan? ML4E (talk) 18:43, April 29, 2016 (UTC) :She was born to a Canadian mother. Didn't she live her whole life in Canada?JonathanMarkoff (talk) 18:49, April 29, 2016 (UTC) :At the time, citizenship was determined through the father. ML4E (talk) 18:50, April 29, 2016 (UTC) ::It seems to me that, once a state falls, questions of citizenship lose their meaning. And in this case, you don't have a strong ethnic and cultural entity you can point to in the absence of a state, as you do with words like Tibetan and Palestinian. There's still an area known as Canada (it's listed as "Occupied Canada" on the maps in the front of all the books from B&I on), so the word Canadian could be used as a descriptor that means something like "a person living in Canada" or "a person with ties to Canada." That sense of the word could apply equally to Jonathan Moss or any other US citizen in a comparable situation, or for that matter to any other sort of foreign national. :::The descriptor may be "Canadian" but for out purposes, the categories are for nationality. We previously resisted double cat'ing by ethic origin unless the individual was an immigrant. Jonathan Moss remained an American regardless of where he lived. We do have Leonard O'Doull double cat'ed since we concluded he had dual citizenship. We might double cat Dorothy given her father's citizenship but it leaves the question outstanding about Occupied Canada. Either Canadian or Stateless as far as I can see. We did discuss this previously: Category talk:Canadians. ML4E (talk) 17:34, April 30, 2016 (UTC) ::::Oh I wasn't suggesting we broaden the definition in that way. Just trying to lay all the cards on the table to ensure we all understand everything that plays into this. Turtle Fan (talk) 18:36, April 30, 2016 (UTC) ::Given that we're never going to find enough canonical information to speak of her legal status with any degree of certainty, I see perilous waters in every direction. You see, Jonathan, why we don't categorize as aggressively as you'd like us to. Turtle Fan (talk) 22:41, April 29, 2016 (UTC) :::To be fair, Jonathan changed the category from American to Canadian and not simply added a new cat. We had categorized her nationality previously. ML4E (talk) 17:34, April 30, 2016 (UTC) DOB She was actually born in 1933. TR (talk) 04:11, July 23, 2018 (UTC)